The current interface works very well.  I have been using it for years.  Being a software Junkie, I also like new things.  Why not do some mock-up interface layouts and put them out for us users to look at and give you some feedback?

Thanks for your renewed focus on this must have power tool.

RFine

The current interface for PD 8 works very well for me.  Been using PD since I got my copy with Fix It Utilities 99.

A ribbon UI would be fine if:

1. The amount of mouse clicks to perform a task =< the current clicks. That's why we use this program, right? Speed to perform a task.

2. The ribbon doesn't take up more real estate. Option to minimize ribbon would help.

3. Depending on the grouping of tasks, users may want to have the capability to customize and or create their own flavor. Why wade through all that clutter for tasks you rarely or never perform?

4. Maybe if possible, have the capability to revert back to the original interface.

Personally, I hate the ribbon interface and am just fine with the current one.

So here is a follow up question..

On the toolbar that has "File Finder", "Favorites", "Sync", "Size Manager", "FTP" and "File Viewer" do you find this toolbar to be odd? For me.. with two of the 5 buttons mentioned launching independent windows I feel that somehow these commands do not belong together. What would you think of tabs for the buttons that impact the mode of the view of the workspace and buttons for the commands that launch external windows?

-mark=

Personally, I HATE the MS ribbon-style toolbar. I have been usingevery "edition" of PD ever since it was called Wiz Manager in the old Windows 3.1 days. The interface is still familiar and opening PD 8 is still more like visiting an old friend. One change I would like to see, however is to allow the versatility of setting your own choices on the "File Finder", Favorites, etc, toolbar. I do really like the enlarged icon for File Finder and File Viewer, which I use constantly and almost never use Sych. I guess that I don't see them as "conflicting" on their larger toolbar. One other suggestion though, is to give users a chance to hide that toolbar. I also use a netbook and all of the screen real estate I can see is better than a seldom-used toolbar taking up about two lines worth of file listings.

My opinion: Don't change it.

One idea we are toying with is moving the second row of icons (the ones that work on a specific pane -- like cut, copy, paste, new folder, etc.) to the a wider pane topbar that today just shows the path -- but tomorrow could hold the commands that are relevent to that particular pane. This would eliminate the second bar and the top bar could be simplified as things like ftp, file viewer could come off of the top bar and into the pane where in fact they are more in context. Then the tool bar could be a real tool bar that does things like launch favorites, size manager, etc.

Thoughts?

Mark,

Making use of the "wider pane topbar" that today contains the path(which I do not use anyway) sounds very interesting. Having commands connected to the panes that they have context with could make more sense.  Is is possible for you to Photoshop a mock-up?

Also please ensure that all toolbars are customizable! Today, I do not use the "Standard Toolbar" because it has items I do not want and is not customizable.

Thanks for your support! 

What I find strange is CTL-F3 (Find files or folders) brings up MS Windows Explorer

Bob Eyster

New registrant here, but longtime PD user.

Keep the interface as-is. One of the main reasons I like PD is that does not look or feel like Windows Explorer. It's a familiar old shoe...

Having said that, I customize the PD toolbar because the default buttons do not meet my needs. IIRC, the default buttons are very large which look goofy to me. 

I like the current look of PD6. However I am considering upgrading to version 8 but first I want to ask:

Does PD8 allow a user to copy only new and changed files and folders such as was provided by my old file manager, Power File by defunct Canyon Software?  Power file also had a switch to turn on or off checking for duplicates when copying or moving files or folders. I have a screen shot of the copy/move dialog box if you are interested. I find Power Desk 6's copy/move dialog box much too small and awkward. I hope this has bee enlarged in ver. 8.

Ben Olsen

Recently, I had to temporarily uninstall PD8 while doing some upgrading of my system.

I was completely lost without it!  I've been using it forever - seems like 10 years at least.

The gui works as is, but I'm not averse to changes - especially context dependent menus.

One thing I always do (that you might add as an option to the configuration, etc.) is add a shortcut on my desktop to the file finder.  It's really a separate app anyway as mentioned in posts above.

Joe

I've been using Powerdesk since it was owned by Mijenix.  I don't mind changes when they are actually beneficial but I don't like how Microsoft (for example) changes stuff just for the sake of calling it new.  I'm very happy with the layout and customizability of the tool bars as they are.

I, too, have been using PD for many many years and I don't know how I could operate without it! The ability to have a "horizontal dual pane" and "save settings" are essential; I don't know how I would organize my files without it. I never use "My Documents" but rather keep my data on separate drives. I like the idea of allowing users to try a beta before any final changes are made. PS I HATE the changes you made to the SystemSuite 10 home page. "Overall 74%, Maintenance 45%" tells me NOTHING. Please consider going back to, or at least giving the user the option of the "old" SS 9 interface.

Thanks for the commetns everyone..

I wonder if anyone would be willing to post THEIR screenshots. I am afraid I can't post here in a public forum our mock ups... but I would love to see how you commonly use the software -- what toolbars you use and what you have on your default toolbar.

Not sure the forum supports this--but if it can--lets try.

-mark=

I have a jpg screen shot for you but I couldn't find a way to post it or send it to you in this forum.

I did some checking and apparently SoftCity doesn't support this yet.. perhaps flickr or something?

-mark=

Leave it alone!  Why change something everyone seems to like.  Concentrate on making the program work correctly and new features.  I'm a loooooooong time user and don't understand why you'd want to bloat a decent program with garbage.  Ask yourself this - does a new change contribute to the utility of this program?  If not, pass on it and go to the next thing on the list.  Refine what you have.  Keep the function key commands - I learned on DOS and the keyboard is still a fast way to interface with the PC.  I hate the ribbon menu system - please don't go there.

Boxtop

I have been using PD for a long time. I like it so much that I use the free one when I have to work on someone's computer and they don't have it. I hate the ribbon style UI! I also customize my tool bars. Would like to see a search that didn't open up Windows though. It would be nice to eliminate the second toolbar.

Donna

I just got an email to complete a survey on Powerdesk - not sure where else to put this.  The survey seems to not be set up correctly, it does not seem to accept text answers for questions 8 and 9 which are asking for feature ideas.  When trying to submit it says "please enter a positive number" for both of these questions.  Therefore I cannot submit the survey

Ditto to what Anthony said.  I tried filling it out in Firefox and got that error message, tried again in IE and it still failed.

Actually, this is a comment/issue with an e-mail that came from AvantQuest for a survey about PowerDesk.  There is no link on AvantQuest website to report issues about the site, so I'll try here.
The survey will fail to gather useful information. 
Questions #8 and 9 ask for text-based answers, but the form is set up to only allow numeric input, so the answer to the question "Name 3 things you would like to see improved" will be "1", "2", and "3" rather than "64-bit Mode", "Color-coded syntax highlight in Viewer Pane", and "Automatic error reporting to AvantQuest".

I've been suing PD for a few years and find it invaluable.  I design interfaces and believe an upgrade can be beneficial if (like was previously mentioned), it's due to functional upgrades as well as aesthetics.

I like being able to 'hide' toolbars in order to take advantage of as much screen space as possible.

Thank everyone for the comments---the issue with the survey is fixed--thanks for letting us know.

I just wanted to make a general comment about the user interface and notion that we should not change anything regarding it.

While I agree in principle that changing to "change" is not good. I do think that a UI that does more for you without adding unnecessary complexity is just as important as adding new features. Upgrades that provide better usability and new features is the key goal.

The good news is we have decided against the Ribbon UI. We are looking at moving the 2nd toolbar into panes so they follow where the pane goes instead of having one 2nd toolbar that works on the pane that is in focus. This will allow us to eliminate the second toolbar all together.

We hear you on keeping the toolbars customizable. :)

Keep the current interface. I'd like to see a bottom-up re-write in native 64-bit code with the same basic layout and functionality. Allowing skins in Win7 would be nice, but the basic layout should be the same. M$ really screwed up Explorer in Win7. They keep reducing or hiding essential functions for no apparent reason.

New to the Forum, what to say?

Hey Mr Manes, To have a developer give the user this kind of input in an open forum is soooo refreshing. Been using PD for ever. The best of the best. In PD8 though, get the program to work right would be my priority. Eg. Refreshing the panels correctly after a folder/file delete etc. Also what gives with opening WE when doubling on a MSWord file? Its not a 'comma in the file name' issue. Im on Win7 32bit. The interface is, and has always been, quick and good. Keep it so, but make it more customizable. I use all PD's functions all of the time. If this app is ever abandoned, it will be a dark and gloomy day. I don't know how folks keeps their PCs organised without it. Thanks for your efforts in improving PD and making it even better than it is now.

Hi Jack,

Thanks for your kind words.

We believe we isolated the issue with Windows Explorer opening to the following conditions:

1. When a special character is used (like a comma) in a filename or path - for some reason this confuses PD and it opens Windows Explorer instead of the associated program. This can happen with say & as an example. Those are what we call special characters. This is scheduled for a fix for Patch 2.

2. I think on the whole with Patch 1 we are in pretty good shape with it working right. There are issues like the one you outlined but on the whole the level of support issues has dropped significantly. If you have any other pet issues that you would like to see fixed please feel free to post here about them and I'll try to capture it. We have not completely locked down the list of planned fixes for PD 8 Patch 2 yet.

Thanks so much for you support and for purchaisng Avanquest products.

-mark=

I have just this week 'upgraded' from Version 5 to 8 - moved from XP to Win7/64.  What I really miss is MultiView!  In looking at this website I see 'you' dropped support for it with version 6 - I followed the directions to put up the 'unsupported' version and it seems to be working...  To keep the Toolbar simple I set it up with just MuitiView and Start Menus.  MultiView is what really brought me to purchase back in the Mijenix days - there were plenty of Windows Explorer do-overs back then so MultiView was the clincher.  Thanks...

I've been using PD since, I think, version 3.  I can't believe you are discussing UI changes when the underlying code is so buggy and annoying.  This is like asking the Captain of the Titanic if the ballroom should be painted a different color.  I don't give a crap about ribbons, but I sure care when "copy path as text" returns null to the clipboard.  I keep upgrading, thinking that someone, some time, some how, will fix things.  When I upgraded to V8, I sent support a list of about a dozen bugs that I discovered in the first few days of use.

Howard,

I'll look to see if these issues are already with my development team. You are welcome to post them here if you like.

I don't quite agree with the notion that it is the Titanic; I mean after all it actually sunk. We have many thousands of customers who are happy with PowerDesk--including here in the forums. Sure there is work to be done (when is there not?) but on the whole the product does what it says it does and more importantly there is a renewed focus on the next generation product--which includes looking at the user interface along with the underlying engines which clearly is your point.

If you have been reading these forums you probably will see that I have mentioned a number of times about our plans to look at some core issues that at the time the product was desigend was not an issue. Over time as files and computer operating systems change in size and complexity you have to re-engineer things. It is not possible to produce an engine for all time.

In any case I understand your frustration though I hope that you are just being a bit dramatic and you are not ready to die aboard the Titanic; but instead ready to help by giving us your thoughts about how we can make the product better.

-mark=

I'd like to insert a positive comment here: Since I've switched from Win7 x64 to Win7 x32, most of the stability problems and crashes have gone away. PD is not the only app that suffers under x64. For long-term planning, I think you'll definitely have to consider a complete re-write in native 64-bit code, but it is premature to declare the ship is sinking simply because of Win7. The x64 version is the culprit. 

An interface change I'd like to see is the inclusion of a manual refresh button under the Sync function (like it worked in Novatix ExplorerPlus). I use Sync often as a manual backup tool. I'll connect an external USB hard disk and sync the day's changes. From time to time, I'll need to delete or rename a file on the source side. When I do so, the lists on both sides automatically refresh. The refresh can take a long time when you are dealing with thousands of files (as I am). I want the ability to make my changes and then wait to trigger the refresh until I am ready. BTW, I prefer the Sync function in PD to more complex, granular tools like Beyond Compare. I've looked at lots of file sync programs and the one in PD does the job better (for me) than any of the single-purpose sync tools out there.

In general, the features I like best about PD that make it an essential utility are (1) File Finder, (2) Sync, and (3) the dual-pane vertical display. I have looked at a lot of Explorer replacements and nothing matches the combination of power and ease-of-use of PD. There are individual, one-trick-pony utilities that will accomplish the same tasks, but run separately using different, non-standard interfaces. Most are more complicated and will do more than I want. Added complexity is not desirable in a file manager. Compare, for example, xplorer2 or XYplorer. Both will cook dinner, do the laundry, and shine your shoes, but are so complicated and non-standard that they are impossible to use efficiently and effectively without extensive study. PD is simple and straightforward. I think you should keep simplicity and ease-of-use at the top of your list as you consider changes to the program. Microsoft really screwed-the-pooch with the Office ribbon bar and drove users like me to OpenOffice. Don't make the same mistake in your interface just because Microsoft did it!

@Fred Dobbs.  I could not agree more with your assessment of PD.

I like the tool bars vs. ribbons.  I like that virtually every function I use is available as a tool bar button.  I also like how easy it is to configure the interface (size the window, adjust column width, dual horizontal).  It is difficult to set the interface in DirectoryOpus and XYplorer.

Sync is so easy to use and is essential to my backup strategy - it is one of the few backups that will properly copy empty folders.  However, an option to permanently delete (no recycle bin) destination files would be nice as well as the manual sync.

I would like an option to show some kind of delimiter between lines in the file list - alternating shades and/or lines.

And please, fix the hang on exit problem that keeps PD from starting up again until the hung process is killed with task manager.  Please.  Please.

The ribbon toolbar was such a step backwards in useability (in my opinion) that I have gone back to Office XP. Having one's most frequently used functions one click away on a fully customizeable toolbar is a concept which should not be abandoned. PD's UI is clean, simple and can be easily customized to suit the individual user - whatever you do please keep that functionality!

One thing I do find annoying is the file info box which pops up when selecting or mousing over a file name. The box partially and in most cases substantially covers the filename itself making filename manipulation (renaming, copying, etc) more difficult. I like the file information alright but it would be nice if the info box could be placed below the file being selected. Or put in an option to turn it off (I've looked for this but may have missed it). 

PD is a great program overall. I'm happy to see this renewed interest. Thanks much.

@Dave Ross

If you are using PD8, click the menu item View, then click on File Tips to "uncheck" the option.  That will eliminate the popups.  Hopefully this will do what you want.

So... just wanted you guys to know... we have definitely decided against a ribbon bar for PD. :) I also voted down an idea to go to a command line interface as well. We just thougt that was silly. Who wants to type commands into a computer? ;)

One thing though.. I find the ribbon bar to be good in some applications and not so good in others. The first version of MS Word that had it was awful. Office 2010 is much better. That said.. the reason the ribbon bar works in my opinion in some applications and not others has a lot to do with how well you can separate what you want to do into individual tasks. I don't think Word works so well because what you want to do when developing a document is not so organized a thing. If you are like me you will work on the body of a document then jump and work on the header or the footer and maybe goof around with the table of contents. This method of work is completely against the design philiosphy of the ribbon UI.

On the other hand with MyInvoices & Estimates (another fine Avanquest product) we implemented the ribbon UI to rave reviews. We contrained the tabs to be for each distinct funciton.. estimate, invoices, customers, etc.

This worked well.

We were tempted to the Ribbon UI for the next PD as we thought we could divide some of the tasks into reasonable tabs--but after playing with and listening to you guys it becamse clearer that we wanted to simplify the UI, keep the customization and make panes stand alone. This better fit the use of PowerDesk.

So my point is--if you put a convertable top on a semi-truck cab though potentially cool it might not be the user experience you are looking for as a truck driver--but that is not to say you should hate convertables tops.

-mark=

@Gary Williams

Thanks much. That did the trick!

I agree with Dave Ross:

» "One thing I do find annoying is the file info box which pops up when selecting or mousing over a file name. The box partially and in most cases substantially covers the filename itself making filename manipulation (renaming, copying, etc) more difficult. I like the file information alright but it would be nice if the info box could be placed below the file being selected." «

It's great we can shut it off, as noted, but I like the info, as well, but it is now in the way - please reposition it and we can have the best of both worlds.

Boxtop

Things that should be looked on in Powerdesk:

1. Dialog helper. It just doesn't seem to work on my Vista (32-bit) and Windows 7 (64-bit) system. Also on my XP machine it doesn't work for some of the newer programs, like Office 2010.

2. Compression. I actually also have Winrar installed as PD doesn't handle all compressed files well. It has a particular problem with .rar files split into different files.

3. It would be nice if to have an option to only see the selected drive in the tree on the left. As with a lot of network drives etc. and dual panes I find I do a lot of sliding up and down to get back to the path I was working on.

4. Working with FTP should be more consistent. E.g. I find that for deleting files on the FTP the only option working for me is using a right mouse click, whereas for inserting a folder the right mouse click doesn't work and I have to use the Insert button. It would also be nice to have the connection details in the status bar, rather than in a separate window.

5. A full screen option on file viewer with a way to navigate through the files would be nice.

Just a few things on the top of my head.

I've been using powerdesk since mijenix published it - LONG.

There are many things I like about it, and a few I don't - and one possibility I miss very much. In fact I find myself using freecommander much more because PD does not offer TABs. If there were only one feature allowed to add, that would be mine.

I don't care if yu add the ribbon or not, I do not find it adds much but it seems the coming thing. However I hate the big toolbar that cannot be turned off. It takes up too much screen real estate. Make it optional, make it resizeable, or just lose it, for me. Keep the file viewer - one of PDs better features - and improve pdfind and pdsync so they work faster and are more customizeable - and I would like for the sync tool to have a default setting chosen on startup. But mostly, it needs to be much faster...

I was thinking about toolbar sizes the other day for Firefox.

What I think would be really cool is to have the option to "Shade" them - so that they are invisible until the mouse cursor hovers over the top line and then the shade "pulls down".

Joe

Leave the interface alone. 

One thing I would like to see with Powerdesk 9 is a rebate for all the people who bought Powerdesk 8, like myself, I love the product and have been using it forever and really hate to see what's happened to it, but I was tricked into buying Powerdesk 8, because Powerdesk 7 "supposedly" did not support Windows 7.

Well Powerdesk 7 has worked flawlessly on the Win7 platform compared to the "compatible", Powerdesk 8. I've lost track of all the problems I've had with ver8 and the only message I'm getting from your support line, is that they are aware of the problems and are trying to fix them....well it's been months now with no results. 

So it came much to my surprise that your talking about a new version before you've gotten the present version working.

How about not working on a mega-patch and fix some of the most glaring problems first such as

After moving a subdirectory from one part of the drive to another, it still shows the original subdirectory where it was originally located and it can't be deleted unless you restart Powerdesk 8

Or how about having the problem of associated programs such as .avi or .mp3 files that when double-clicking them they call up windows explorer and not the program associated all because they may happen to have a comma or another non-text value in the filename.

Fix the product then will talk about the future of it, because if it isn't fixed there is no future.

@Alan Whitley  As much as I want to like PowerDesk, I could not agree more with you.  I've not had resolution to any problem I've reported.  All I get is the line that they cannot duplicate the problem.  Right.  I find myself using XYplorer for day to day file management and the only time I use PD is to do file sync.  PD still hangs in memory on exit preventing another execution of the program.  I have the same issue with the comma in the file name and the subdirectory that remains in the list after being moved or deleted.  When I scroll the folder list, the text smears - it is not a smooth scroll of the text as in the file list.  Thumbnails are generated from the bottom up which defies logic - every other program I'm aware of generates thumbnails top down.  When Avanquest gets around to releasing a new version of PD, it is nothing more than a few fixes with a new version number.  I really appreciate Mr. Manes, but I have no faith the ongoing issues with PD will be fixed.

Hi Mark. Thanks again for the request for input.

I also am a long time PD user, and it is the essential piece of software for Windows in my opinion.

In spite of its occasional quirk, it is the first program I put onto my computer. Please don't try to emulate the Microsoft products. I object to the Fisher-Price way of doing things just for the sake of making changes. Maybe I am obtuse, but I find I undo all of the features in the latest versions of Windows just to go back to the "classic" look and feel. We are not kids, and hiding essential features just because it is better for us is not the way to go. I help many folks with their computers, and I see why they run into trouble on recent Windows.

Powerdesk on the other hand is one of the few intuitive and feature packed programs that I've found. I am sure that there are some enhancements possible, but overall I'd give it a 9.7 9.6 9.8

Thanks, Ian

Hi Gary,

I assure you -- we have a team that works on PowerDesk each and every day. We have a 60 day man day effort that we are right now trying to divide up into smaller bites so everyoone sees some action in the update department.  Stay tuned. These things take a while to cook--often more time than I woudl like.

Alan--I am doing both. I am working on finishing the localized versions of the products (which are finally about done) and working on the next update. We are also in product planning for PD 9. This is important because in product planning this is where we allocate our resources toward the big things--like new replacement engines as well as planning for new features. So I think I am doing the right thing--keeping the current engineers on fixing issues and finishing already planned products; while my product managers work on the future. It is not a serial process.

Ian--thank you for your comments. While I happen to be a big fan of the UI improvements made to Windows 7 I do agree that the dumbing down of the control panel is not really that useful. Then again I don't have to answer the support calls at Microsoft. My guess is that they have a reason for what they're doing.

In our case we want our software to be approachable but we know that the PowerDesk user is in fact a "power" user so my desire is not to dumb down the product. What I want to do is improve the underlying engines, remove the redundnacy in the UI and add some requested features for PoewrDesk 9. The key for PD 9 is to focus on these items-- not just try to make a pretty UI.

I want to wish all of you a Happy Thanksgiving :)

-makr=

Oh.. Alan.. one other thing--you spoke about the Windows 7 upgrade. I wanted to mention to you that our efforts for PD 8 were multiple for Windows 7. In the feature department we added full support of "Libraries" which are a Windows 7/Vista method of collecting like things--like documents regardless of where they live on the physical hard drive. PD 8 fully supports this. We also spend tremendous effort to make the product work properly on Windows 7/Vista 64 bit. I think if you used either 64 bit OS or the new libraries feature you would not be happy with PD 7.

Anyway--we really have done a lot of quality work on PD 8. I hope that by the next patch I'll win you over.. no strike that.. the product will win you over. :)

-mark=

Mark,

And a Happy Thanksgiving to you as well!

Thanks for the updates.  We're going to hold you to the statement that the next patch will win us over.  :)  PD is fundamentally too good of a product to not fix.

Cheers, Gary

I like the UI and am very used to it, but because I cannot customize the Standard Buttons, I turn them off - plus the bar is a bit large.

"I think if you used either 64 bit OS or the new libraries feature you would not be happy with PD 7"

Great...Full support for libraries...but to have the simple basics of moving a file and file associations not work, you have to remember what your product was designed for and was very good at...FILE MANAGEMENT. When you sacrifice that for bells and whistles or look and feel, you do a disservice to what made it in my opinion, the one program that is irreplaceable on my system. When I reformat my whole system from square one (which I do every couple of years, format the drives and start fresh), the first thing after I install the operating system is to install Powerdesk. I already use a 64bit OS and the one thing I enjoyed about PD7, is it did the basics very well, PD8 does not. So I'm waiting with baited breath, that your Patch (whenever it may come), can solve these issues. I'm not going to give up on PD, it's too valuable a product to me, but if you can't get PD8 to work in a timely fashion then why bother with PD9...Remember Windows ME, Vista, all of which had more patches than Band-Aid has bandages. Good Luck

Alan

Alan,

You don't really think that we made a decision like this do you? I know you are trying to make a point about over all software quality vs. features. How can I disagree? Of course I want the best software with the right features with as few bugs as possible.

I am not sure if I have said this in this thread or not--but I know I have said it. There is a new team working on PowerDesk. From myself, to the product manager to the engineering team. We are investing significantly in this product and will continue to do so.

Our intention is to release new patches with bug fixes for PowerDesk 8 before we go hard to work on PowerDesk 9. So stay tuned. There are fixes coming.

-mark=

Nah, Mark, I am pretty sure the conversation went like this:

Developer: Do you want me to work on the new features or keep working on the bug where PD dies every minute on the minute?

Manager: We have to have the features or there is nothing to differentiate this from other products or the previous version.  I am sure the users won't mind that it crashes every minute. 

Come on guys, this is the first time I have had this kind of interaction with the development team on a product I use all the time.  Do you think the 800 pound gorilla consulted me when they stuck in the Ribbon interface?  Not at all.  There is a thread (search for it) regarding PD8 patch 2.  That is the perfect place to GIVE SPECIFICS about what needs to be fixed.  This is a good thread for us to talk about what would make the features better.  I am not saying that we should not talk about some of the maddening bugs here but if all we contribute toward version 9 is "don't do it, you need to fix 8 first" I think we have missed the point of the thread and passed up a wonderful opportunity.

On the other hand, Mark, there are many Loyal (pun intended) users who are frustrated with 8.  It is hard to overlook that 8 does not work correctly for us and move on to 9.  There is a general feeling with which I agree:  We don't like paying for an upgrade just to fix bugs: example upgrading from vista to win 7.

I have been following this entire spiel , and I whole heartedly agree with Alan and the others.  I think what they are trying to tell you is that without PD8 working correctly, you will have lost your base for PD9, so why bother at all on 9.  I agree!  Make PD8 bulletproof and there will be a line waiting to buy the next version, site unseen!  This is called basic customer service.  Without that, you're just another software company.  It makes no different to me who is working on either version - it's a moot point to your users and of really no significance to anyone but you.  Unless you can make the product that any one of us is using at the moment, work properly, you're preaching to the choir; we have no interest in your hierarchy of management.

Why can't you release what you have in Patch 2 and have Patch 3 come shortly thereafter?  Why the long wait on Patch 2?  You discuss how you have isolated certain issues; well, fix them, send out a patch, and move on to the next one.  Why all the hype?

What irritates me most, is the fact that any one of us has to even participate in this forum, at this level.  I my view, these basic issues we are having with PD8 should not even exist, had you done your homework.  It's almost as if you think you're doing us all a favor by fixing something that shouldn't have been broken to begin with.  You dont buy a puzzle with parts missing, do you?  And then have to beg to get the rest of ther parts?

I know, you're going to say that there will always be issues with software - that is the nature of the business.  Well, the problems related here are very basic issues that many users are experiencing them - not the kind of thing that is one in a thousand.  And consider all of the users that haven't or won't speak out, or just plain gave up!

Also, consider that the longer you let this languish, the less support you will have for input on PD9, because by then, most, like me, will no longer care.

I'm sorry for the rant but I think it was necessary out of sheer frustration with PD8 and maybe this forum is not where it should be vented however as I said it is one of the few programs that I deem essential to myself since I use it everyday, I know your trying your best and I appreciate it. I'm usually a patient person so I guess the frustration was originally caused by as "loyal fan" says, Paying for a product upgrade that had very little to differentiate it from the previous version and having that upgrade not perform as well as the previous version. I'll wait for patches since I have no other option, remember this...you don't have to win me over with the product, what you have to do is win me over with good User Support.

Thanks

Alan

Following is my entry into "Patch 2 - What is on your list?" from a few days ago.

I copied here because that topic seems dead:

Why are we even discussing PD9 when it is obvious PD8 is not ready.  I felt burned on the last two upgrades (getting beta versions instead of release versions) and will think twice before buying PD9 if PD8 is not fixed first.  I have been using PD Pro since version 3 (I think) and it is going to take a lot to get me to switch, but it has crossed my mind more than once lately.

Recommendations:  SDK; Customizable arguments for programs on the launch bar, e.g. the ability to include current selected file(s) on the command line as arguments; ability to replace the Standard Buttons.

Question: Is the PDF Viewer supposed to work without Adobe Reader installed?  I use Foxit and my PDFs don't display correctly.

I have no stake in trying to control this conversation. It goes where it goes - no harm no foul.

However I do want to identify for all of you what was done for PD 8 so that we are all on the same page as to what is done since PD 7.

Here is the short list (though hardly the complete list):
- We updated the software to run properly on Windows Vista/Windows 7 64. This was a HUGE effort and something that we were being hammered on for PD 7.
- We added support for native Windows Vista/Windows 7 features--namely support for Libraries and while that may not seem like much--it was a significant effort.
- We worked on improving the ZIP file features so that you could navigate through the ZIP file folder by folder instead of just seeing the ZIP file and having some weird usability thing go on. It was a huge customer compaint.
- We reworked and ehanced the preview features so more media types are understood (including updated Office formats). To do this however we had to license technology that views these formats. It is beyond the scope of most engineering groups to reverse engineer and directly support many of the supported file types in PowerDesk. This means that this technology we license has to keep up with the formats as they change. Thus if the format changes--we must get an update from the technology provider and incorporate it into the software. The down side is that this technology will have its own issues that we can't always immediately fix.
- We added support for SecureFTP - a big user request.
- We added the ability to search email attachments - a new feature.
- Brand new help system
- Brand new user guide (far better than the old one)
- Believe it or not my team fixed 300+ bugs that were in the PD7 product.

PD 8 was worked on for nearly a year! We then followed the release with a patch. We are also working on a second patch--which I admit is long in coming. The issues are not simple or small to fix. Development takes time. The point of this thread is to gather feedback for our product planners so that we can lay out a future for this product. It is NOT to stop work on the current shipping product. My job is to focus on both today and tomorrow's product.

I am telling this group these thngs because I want you to understand what has happened over the last year. I also want you to know that I respect your opinion. I want to us to earn your trust and let you know that we value your opinion. I just don't want a few posts to overun some basic facts about the differences betweeen PD 7 and PD 8.

I wish all of you a happy thanksgiving. I am pleased there is passion for this product. I thrive on it--even if it is not all love I see. :)

-mark=

Mark, I believe you're still missing the point.  It makes no difference to me what went into PD8 - I already purchased it!  The marketing people and past reputation of the product has done its job.  We, as a group, simply want to see something we were already sold on, and we already bought - work correctly.  I don't think that's too much to ask.  If it wasn't ready for primetime, it shouldn't have been introduced.  Quit lamenting about the path from PD7 to PD8 and simply make PD8 work correctly - I believe that's all that people really want at the moment.  Accomplish that and your desire for input on PD9 will roll in like you wouldn't believe.

This kinda reminds me of a Monty Python Sketch with a Drill Sergeant yelling to the troops...."Wait For It"... :)

Have a good thanksgiving as well.

Alan

That's all great Mark, but the program running on Vista, 64 bit. 7, or whatever doesn't affect me a bit - I'm still running XP (32) and will be as long as I can get away with it.  I felt like I paid for an update that didn't affect me - and it still didn't work, regardless what went into it (I will say no more about this - it is past history).

Like Boxtop said, you don't have to sell us on the product - most of us have been using it for many years and hopefully, will be for many more.

I have been requesting the same things via email for many years (listed above, but so you don't have to scroll: SDK; Customizable arguments for programs on the launch bar, e.g. the ability to include current selected file(s) on the command line as arguments; ability to replace the Standard Buttons).  The custom arguments for programs on the launch bar is the improvement I would most like to see.  I would also like to see the silly restriction on paying for later downloads removed.  If someone lost their backup and needs to re-download because of a catastrophe, the last thing they want to mess with is having to pay for the program again - that just adds insult to injury.

I am truly happy you guys are putting so much effort into it because I rely on PD so much.  Keep plugging away at it, but throw us a bone.

Have a good thanksgiving too.

Mark has already said -- several times -- that the engineers are working on fixing the problems in PD8.  What's the point of badgering him?  Do you think the engineers are just sleeping at their desks and they won't fix the bugs in PD8 unless you repeat the same complaints X number of times?  If you've found a problem that hasn't been discussed, report it in the "Patch 2" thread.  The point of THIS thread was to discuss changes you'd like to see in PD9. 

I'm as annoyed by software bugs as anybody.  But frankly, I'm grateful that Avanquest has asked for our opinions for what we'd like to in the next new version.

Two suggestions:

1. Real sftp.  What you have put in version 8 is NOT sftp which is the standard.  Sftp tunnels through to the destination using secure shell (ssh).  This is pretty much the corporate standard these days for developers.

2. Give us a stripped down alpha version of PD9 and let us beat it to death before we start adding all the bells and whistles.  What I mean is pure file manager stuff in the alpha version.  No need for the external libraries you guys did not develop.  My list to be included would be:

   a: view directory structure

   b. see file names.  I don't even care about seeing the proper icons for files.  I sure don't care about previews at this point.

   c. file synch

   d. network drives.  This one is huge because this is one complaint I see a lot.  Viewing contents of a network drive even over 100 MB ethernet or wireless N is incredibly slow.

   e. zip

If we could prove that the core really works in both 32 bit and 64 bit and is fast, that would be the basis I would like to see PD9 built on.  I assume this is built in C++ and is therefore object oriented so this should not be that hard to do.

Loyal

Randy, I am not badgering Mark but responding directly to a response of his.  Mark, I do apologize if it came out that way (it was late when I entered it), but like I said, I will not bring it up again.  I only recently found this site and needed to vent a little like everyone else.  Plus, I get no response from the other topic and was talking about PD7, not PD8.  Again, I apologize.

I eager look forward to PD8 Patch 2 and the many good suggestions made here, but must agree with "loyal" about getting the core stable before adding all the bells and whistles - I too would be satisfied with this process.  Of course I would then like to the improvements mentioned here added.

Mark, you may also consider using the many interested people here as beta testers, I'm sure you would find no lack of volunteers.

Troy, the last time Mark replied on the patch 2 thread was way back on Monday.  ;)

Loyal

Another PD9 suggestion.  For file synch, the progress that we are given is for one folder at a time which I find useless.  Could we get a progress meter that actually shows overall progress or at leas a count of "files remaining?"

I don't know how I forgot one of my other "wish" items, but another feature I would like to see is a way to have different directories (folders) remember their own display settings.  If not all of them, then the special ones like control panel.  I use the regular control panel because I don't like to see my items in it displayed the same way as my other directories (which is nearly always in detailed view).

I realize it is only a click away for this particular example, but there are other directories I would like special displays settings for; e.g. My Pictures, etc.

1. Could we have a more exciting, prominent icon for PD 8 in the Windows 7 taskbar? I have been a PC user since DOS and find PD as near ideal as I am going to get, but it would be nice for it to have its own Search for Files or Folders, rather than using Windows Exploere's

2. I posted a How do I ... request recently in this forum. I got the confirmatory email but I cannot find my post and whether anybody has replied. Could Avanquest run their own forum and support site rather than it getting lost in huge SoftCity

Peter> Not sure if this is part of what you want.

I always put the search tool on my desktop.  All you have to do is to navigate in Powerdesk to the folder containing powerdesk (under \Program Files\Avanquest\PowerDesk).  Find the executable (pdfind.exe) and drag it onto your desktop or toolbar.  Once there, when you release the mouse, just select Create Link to Application.

Also, once it's on your desktop or taskbar, you can right click on it and select properties.  In that dialog on the Shortcut tab, you can select a new icon for it.  You can find tons of free icons on the web, download them and then use them like this. 

Of course, you can also create your own icons.  I'm not much of an artist, but I have taken a preexisting icons and put them through a graphics program like gimp to change their color or make other small changes.  I also have an old program called icon easel that is pretty nice.

Icon Easel

HTH

Joe

Enhance the Win7 Libraries -- after using them for several months, I finally realized that PD8 displays library contents differently than Win7 Explorer. When the top-level Library is selected in PD8, it shows the contents of all the constituent folders in a single, undifferentiated list. Totally confusing...

When I select a top-level Library, I would like to just see the names of the folder. Then I will select the one that I want to use. Don't mush the contents into a single list.

Or... make it a user-selectable option which way they are to be displayed.

Be Heard....We're Listening....

Can't you hear it Avanquest.....that slow steady drumming of fingers on desktops waiting for relief, the screams of frustration, the constant yelling, the moans and groans of disappointed users, the constant echoing of the phrase "Is it ready" or "Are we there yet" .... and the constant drip...drip...drip...of empty support promises....

FIX PD8 NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Throw us a bone, a life preserver, even an anchor...but stop leaving us hanging months and months for relief from a product that doesn't work as promised. 

I agree whole heartedly with Alan!  Since my last post on Nov 23rd, we still have not heard a word about when and what we can expect.  I think we deserve a refund.

I just got a new notebook that runs Windows 7, 64 bit.  Normally, the first thing I would do (after making a restore disk and an image disk) is order and install (another copy of) Powerdesk.  Based on what I have heard here, I'm not going to do that.  I'm going to wait until the gnashing of teeth subsides and we hear a few sighs of relief.

For now, I'll continue using this excellent product in my XP vm where it works.

Be Heard....We're Listening....

I can't tell if you're listening or not since all the feedback were getting is silence, All I can see and read about Powerdesk 8 is:

Problems: Many, both simple and complex.

Answers:

1) None (I guess Silence is Golden)

2) Lip Service (We are working on the latest patch...zzzzzzzz)

3) Support (Non-Existent)

4) All of the above

And the drumming of fingers continues, it's up to Avanquest to fix and support their product.

We've given you our money, your product has serious problems, we've been patient for a patch...now it's time for you to step up to the plate.

It's becoming quite evident that you were too quick in releasing PD8, and were ill prepared for the problems you are now facing,

It's seeming more and more that it was just a cash grab, instead of a software solution or upgrade.

You don't have to sell us the product, we already love what it does, and the only way you will keep us as customers and to get new ones is to fix it.

I don't think I'm asking for the moon,

I just want to be able to click on a file and have it open in the right program instead of windows explorer

I want to move a file/subdirectory and have it not continually show in the previous window without having to close PD8 down and start it again to make it disappear.

I want to be able to view a .jpg in a file that contains a "." or "," in it's filename without it opening windows explorer.

I want to be able to rename a directory without the program, telling me "If you change a file name extension, the filename may become unstable"... I'm changing the subdirectory name not a file extension, so why does this pop up?

And so on and so on.....the frustration continues and so does the silence.

Be Heard....We're Listening.......I Don't Think So.

@Alan Whitley.  Well said.  My feelings exactly.

@Alan Whitley.  I could not agree more.  I had to remove PD8 and revert to PD7 due to the problems with PD8.  It freezes my Outlook 2010 every time.

Interesting comments. However, they do not reflect my particular experience.

To begin with I could not install PD8 for love or money. The installer crapped out straight away and eventually I started from a blank system and reinstalled XP pro and apps from scratch. But PD8 installed fine on a "fresh" system (for some reason) and I have not had a problem like those reported, since then. It is clear to me that there are issues in getting the system to a state that suits PD8.

This should not be so, and I think that is the area that clearly needs to be addressed. If the developers are interested, I have another system that won't accept PD8 - and I have had to revert to the old PD5 - which installs and operates essentially fine (given that it is a few years out of date).

PD7 I found would not handle large synch jobs, so I gave up on that immediately, and the company refunded my money very promptly and with no fuss.

So, for those who are clearly frustrated, I would suggest that installing from scratch is an option that worked for me. I am sure that the programmers will get to the bottom of it eventually, but they need a screwed up machine to work on.

Happy New Year to all. Ian

Mark Manes

It's time for some feedback mate.

PD8 has become pure frustration. So much of a pain I'm using free alternatives.

From all the forums on PD8 it's becoming obvious that the frustration is turning to anger.

Ian

@Alan Whitley    -   Right on!  Very succinct.  I'm guessing from the silence, that Mark Manes is no longer involved with PD8.  I hope that's not the case, but it is an assumption based on the silence.  I'm wondering what it's going to take to make Avanquest listen?

Do you guys just make this stuff up? :)

I posted in another thread prior to Christmas that we were about to release a test patch for PowerDesk. We did run into some last minute difficulties that prevented us from releasing before the holidays.

It will be put up this week if all goes well.

-mark=

YEAH!  you're still here, mark!  hope you had a good new year holiday.  the natives are restless.  i look forward to the upcoming improvements in PD8.

gary

Hello,

Here is a late vote for: do not remake the interface, it is just fine and all you would do is introduce a bunch of new bugs.  Instead, fix the problems with the current version.  I bought five licenses for my company, but decided to keep everyone on PD7 for now.  I also tell my clients to hold up with upgrading, because PD8 isn't ready for prime time.   If you just dump a new UI on me, I'm done with it.

Regards,

Richard 

Mark Manes

Do you guys just make this stuff up? :)

I posted in another thread prior to Christmas that we were about to release a test patch for PowerDesk. We did run into some last minute difficulties that prevented us from releasing before the holidays.

It will be put up this week if all goes well.

Well Mark I guess it didn't go as well as planned...Such is the ongoing legacy of PD8

And the drumming of fingers continues....

I have to release software that is ready or you will be just as upset. The patch was close to release last week but we had some issues with the installer giving you an option during install that simply would not work. We have a new installer back today with this option removed and hopefully it will clear QA and my personal check.

Sorry for the delay-- at least I didn't call the patch PowerDesk 2010 :)

Greetings all,

I will start a new thread with details of the full build of Patch 2 but thought I would let the folks here have a look at it since it is just now off the presses. I think it looks good. If no significant problems pop-up we will push this out via LiveUpdate in the coming week.

A couple of notes:

- This is a FULL build and a TEST update. We feel really good about it but the point of this is to let you have a look at it and provide feedback. You will need your serial number during the install.

- You will need to uninstall PD 8 before you can instal this.

- You will need to reboot after the install. Failure to do so will likely cause issues. The installer will ask you to do it--please do it.

- After the install the about box should say version 8.3.1.7

- Tech support will NOT provide help with this release as it is test. You use at your own risk. If you do not like it -- you can fall back to the released product. 

- This build does not fix everything you ever asked for. It does however fix 45+ issues some of which are pets of yours. Some of which are pets of mine. Some issues as I have said before will require a significant engine overhaul which is being worked on for PD 9 along with other new features.

- We are starting work on Patch 3 now ...

Here is the link. I'll post again with the article with the patch notes in a while..

http://www.avanquestusa.com/download/PowerDesk_8317_full.exe

-mark=

Thanks Mark!  I'm installing Patch 2 now per your instructions above.

Have a great day!

Thanks Roger!

Here is the article on the patch notes.

Heya Mark.  Downloading patch now.  Will we run into serial number authentication issues (i.e. failure due to serial number already in use) after uninstall and reinstall?

Thanks,

Gary

Hope not Gary. It should know you are putting on the same PC with same OS, etc.

Let support know if you do run into an issue. They address serial number issues. 

Well rats.  I cannot get PD8 to uninstall.  It complains the PowerDesk8.msi file is missing.  However, the program is no longer authenticated.  Ugg.  I will try to remove it manually.  Not starting out good.

I will post manual uninstall instructions shortly.

The instructions for manual PowerDesk removal are posted here.

Sorry for the trouble.

Great...I went to install the new patch....everything went well until I went to start the program and it comes up saying

Powerdesk 8.3.1.7

It appears that the serial number XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-XXXXX-XXXX-XXXX you selected when installing PowerDesk was already used or you have reached the maximum of installation allowed. Therefore, this software cannot run with this serial number. For more information, please contact the customer service service or click here.

Well I clicked on the link which goes nowhere... I install Powerdesk on the 2 computers I use...Now since this link goes nowhere, I will try to contact Avanquest tomorrow to see what they can do...I purchased this product, I don't distribute it around since it's registered to me...

PS...when I installed the new program, it changed the font style I was using in Powerdesk...

Hopefully this is a onetime thing and not a bug.

PS.. http://kb.avanquestusa.com/ and your email support 'css@avanquestusa.com.' both don't seem to be working at this time, I'll try later, maybe I'll even get on chat when your open, hopefully they won't waste my time, like the last couple of times I've used them. 

If support can help me with the above problem, then any further problems with PD8, I'll address in the Patch 2 Test Build Feedback forum since it doesn't seem appropriate to discuss problems with PD8 in this forum anymore.

This forum has become useless, especially with the release of the patch, maybe at a future date it will become relevant again but not at this moment since any future versions of Powerdesk will ultimately depend upon how well you fix this currently troubled version of this program.

Sincerely

Alan Whitley

Alan,

Currently PowerDesk is limited to a single user / single system license. So putting it on two systems in effect violates the license thus the problem you encountered. We may change this in the future-but for now that is the way the software works. 

Mike who monitors this forum will be happy to help you with the serial number issue you encountered. 

How about a license that will allow installation on at least 3 computers in the same house.

Possible new feature? (If you don't already ...)

I accumulate a lot of recorded drama and music, which I then have to file. I would like a function called "make folder from file".

So if I have a file called e.g. "House.jpg" or "Sherlock Holmes.mp3" this would truncate the extension and create a folder called "House" or "Sherlock Holmes", allowing me to just drag the file(s) to that folder. Simple, and avoids the copy, cut and paste route.

Thanks, Ian

PS - Sorry, I think I am in the wrong group for my last post ...

Ian

Actually you're not Ian. It started out as a thread for wishes just like yours. It's just that there are some many problems with the current version that that took over the thread.

Bug PD8. Possibly you already have this. Hex editor not working as desired.

E.g. In C:\  right click on boot.ini

Select <powerdesk>

Select <hex edit>

error message not enough memory on device Q:

click cancel. click cancel, click cancel, etc. Hex window eventualy comes up

Sorry if this is the wrong thread for bug reporting but I cn't be bothered to find the right one.

I just install the SP2 release for PD8 version 8.2.1.9. When I try to install the service pack I get this error: 0x5, invalid registry key.

Any idea how I should install service pack 2 (this is the release not the beta) it was presented in the Live Update.

Thanks

Bob Eyster

@Robert ...

I ran into same problem on one system, but another system worked.  I isolated the problem to a missing registry key.

Using regedit, navigate to this entry ...

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Avanquest\PowerDesk

check for this entry (the problem is it should be missing) ...

MainPath with value C:\Program Files\Avanquest\PowerDesk\PDExplo.exe

if missing ... add the MainPath key with the value that points to where you have PDExplo.exe installed.

The update should then work.

Cheers,

Gary

This may no longer be a live issue, but I too am not all that excited with MS's attempt at a ribbon interface. I've learned to use it largely because I started using MS products only with Office 2007 (tho I had them since 1997). But I failed to see the real advantage, and many friends who were long time users detested the ribbon.

I think that is signficant for Powerdesk as PD's user base is comfortable "under the hood." Why else would we be using an Explorer-replacement, esp. those of use who've used PD for 10 years or more? The ribbon was designed for newbies. Even for that, I don't think it was very successful. For experienced users, you want something that can be accessed with minimal fuss or clicks.

Oh, and that is RELIABLE and WORKS. It is there that PD's development team needs to direct its efforts.

There are many focused utilities out there of the TweakUI or FreshUI style that could be wrapped into Powerdesk. Look at my PC (less than a month old on Win 7) and you'll see at least a couple dozen such tools. Give me some tools to tweak my system, especially that handle Win 7's junctions & security & UAC well. And let me navigate my multiple disks & partitions fluidly.